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In today's news TNT are asking for responses in a new survey on mobile games
. Although there is nothing concrete in the survey questions, it appears to be asking for feedback on potential ideas for a new slot machine-based mobile app concept, as that seems to be a common theme through many of the questions.
Much of the meat of the survey is deciding on your favourite framing narrative for a game based around customisation, rebuilding ruined homes, and using... a laser gun. Be that as a fashion designer, pirate, mobster, or witch. Suggested gameplay of which you can see below (it's actually a laser paint
There are 117
comments below. Add yours!
Oh, now they'll make money with gambling, what a kid-friendly experience they are building around neopets trade mark...
There's so many parts of this survey that are just so tonedeaf. Be that the image above that's uncomfortable to watch for pretty obvious NSFW reasons, the fact they have edited feminine characters to appear masculine for the pirate section (because only boys can be pirates!), the fact that they ask you if you've even played Neopets...
I wouldn't touch a mobile Neopets slot game with a ten foot pole.
Why can't they jusy make an app with actual Neopets games we already know and love instead of this nonsense?
For fu-- the "Please specify" fields don't even let me put in text in this survey. Unbelievable.
...They already have TWO mobile games currently in BETA. WHY would they consider looking into a NEW game right now?! o_O
September 21, 2022 2:50 PM NST
The editing on this survey is poor quality. It inspires literally no confidence (not to imply confidence in the first place).
is that thing supposed to be HANNAH?
I can't even be bothered to go look at this survey. Not interested!
Is it maybe aimed at the crypto community and they posted it on the wrong website?
September 21, 2022 3:19 PM NST
ew no lmao
I hate the Hannah model so much.
I don't like the gif with the lupe being shooted, there's something off about it.
Also, another cash grabbing phone game with microtransactions? Why not a PC/console game? Or better, fixing the site?
September 21, 2022 3:37 PM NST
Don't want it, don't like it, won't play it. Sick of these games that pop up, fizzle, and do nothing to help my actual Neopets account.
Fix the site! Concentrate on THAT.
The image above is pretty creepy.... Just saying.
Instead of mobile games, why not actually fix the games on the site? That's what annoys me. I also really just don't like mobile games that much. I like computer games, I like online games (( aka, Neopets games )), but mobile games..... ehhhh.
This couldn't possibly be more out of touch with what Neopets fans want if it was actually trying. Like, wow. Awful.
And I loved how their choices of games was :
Option 1: Terrible concept of a game where you are a cute aisha and you play slots, dress people up, decorate houses and... *destroy Neopian villages?!?!*
Option 2: Terrible concept of a game where you are a witch and you play slots, dress people up, decorate houses and... *destroy Neopian villages?!?!*
Option 3: Terrible concept of a game where you are a pirate and you play slots, dress people up, decorate houses and... *destroy Neopian villages?!?!*
Like, woah TNT, don't overwhelm me with choices, here!! *phew*
September 21, 2022 4:18 PM NST
@anunsureneopian That's not a lupe. That's supposed to be Hannah, the Usul. *facepalm* You know, she's the reason I even began my account for them, and seeing this infuriates me.
Would I be interested in a game where Sophie uses her magic to maybe help people and collect items for potions and whatnot? Where you have to decide if we're going to help such-and-such a character? Absolutely. A pirate game where we're sailing around Neopia and getting to visit the different lands would be SO NEAT.
The options they actually presented? *wet flop sound* Why were they so insistent on destroying Neopia?! Like...whaaat?
September 21, 2022 4:58 PM NST
They don't seem to understand that we want the whole site fixed and games brought back first before making new stuff. I feel like the team we once loved are being replaced by different people (perhaps meta or an ai). It really annoys me because it doesn't take long to learn GameMaker and there are thousands of tutorials on how to use it and make games for Neo, rather then apps. I miss the games room. Just makes me feel like Neo is being used for the brand name now. Another pet site I play has 1 programmer and he's managed to do all the updates and made it mobile friendly before Neo did, he too has a small team, I ended up making the switch to that place and only pop on to reply to friends on Neo. I'm gonna go back to the other place -sigh-.
Based on the clothes and colour composition I also thought at first that she was Hannah.
But the tail's shape doesn't match with the one of an usul. Also, the ears of an usul have a "piggy tail" shape while the one of the gif has a dog/wolf style (concave shape). Either way, it's disturbing.
The picture startled me.. I thought she was turning around and tearing off a piece of her face to reveal she was purple. I'm not being sarcastic, that's what I "saw" and it was almost scary. @herdy, thank you for posting the blatant sexist and stereotypical characterizations.
I agree with every other comment. I also join the throng of you who can not fathom why neopets doesn't fix the site.
@mavegibson - thank you for posting the list of scenarios. They're so awkwardly offensive.
September 21, 2022 5:25 PM NST
The number of grammatical and formatting errors in this survey are astounding.
September 21, 2022 5:33 PM NST
@anunsureneopian Except the face is that of an Usul, not a lupe.
September 21, 2022 5:36 PM NST
@anunsureneopian A lupe has a canine muzzle, and the face clearly doesn't have that. Regardless, yes, this is a very poor rendering.
September 21, 2022 5:42 PM NST
Behold, another mobile game that will be abandoned not long after it's released... Where's the NC UC poll? AND giftable pet slots, TNT??????
I don't care about mobile games at all.
September 21, 2022 6:04 PM NST
@kyrette, I agree. As mentioned above I rather the site fixed and games back before new content happen. I lost hope for Neo though, I used to be a possitive person for the site but not now e.e; Neo feels neglected.
Just submitted the survey. Seems like TNT has been going directions into developing mobile games that *simply* revolve around MTX schematics, and worse when it comes into poor gameplay concepts.
Um, why are we destroying villages again?? That doesn't seem very, um, Neopian?
September 21, 2022 6:38 PM NST
All this work and effort to keep producing outdated, repetitive, broken apps. Has any app thus far been released in fully working order?
I understand that they want to save money using assets that already exist (hence the game formats) but its so frustrating when they have two perfectly good apps that, with site tie-ins would be amazing:
I feel like SURELY there are at least SOME of the elements for Key Quest already available, and Habi is a basic concept used by lots of apps.
You can still be cheap, but you don't have to be stupid.
Exactly, how about you fix the main site, first? Completely tone deaf and no concept of what true die hard fans want.
September 21, 2022 6:56 PM NST
I wish they brought back ' Treasure Keepers' and not...this ...
September 21, 2022 7:09 PM NST
I think thats a part of the reason why I switched virtual pet sites. I've become so dissapointed in Neo lately. The team aren't the same as they were back in '18/19 at least in my eyes. I used to have so much love for Neo and hope but after years of a half broken site and no indication on when its expected to be fixed, I just feel sad for Neo
wish ND and JS can sell it to someone who truly cares about it.
@darkelfa I LOVED treasure keepers, it's still my site theme after all these years...
Also I think they want to add a gacha mechanic or something? It sounds weirdly NTF-y the way they talk about the whole thing...
September 21, 2022 7:13 PM NST
GameMaker is free, and fun to use ^_^ they have a drag n drop function and a programming one - youtube has heaps of tutorials in how to use it. Unity is another one that offers 3D games could possibly make KQ out of it not sure though. There are heaps of game making resource out there.
Oh Hannah, what have they done to you
I hate that I can't unsee the mobile game porn style ads with that second gif.
Man they even reused questions from previous surveys in the survey
September 21, 2022 7:19 PM NST
I wondered that myself with Hannah. I liked the other games she was in but unless it was KQ she doesn't suit CGI. Poor Hannah!
Some of the commenters here have such dirty minds.
Here, I see an Usul getting hit with a paint gun. What is being implied never even crossed my mind.
I am a female who does not think this is inappropriate or sexist. However, this mobile game isn't exactly a priority right now, considering the state of the main site.
This is one of the most disturbing things I’ve ever seen come from an official Neopets channel. TERRIBLE gif aside, all of the (nearly hypothetical) questions posed by the survey are exactly THE OPPOSITE of what I think most of us want them to be spending time and resources on. Asking us which shallow theme we “want” on their poor excuse for a mobile game is a sad attempt at giving us the illusion of choice. It also proves that whatever think tank of marketing boomers came up with this one are totally oblivious to the interests of the community, and that’s the worst part. But the animation is also comically atrocious.
Aaaand yeah, joining the choir about “just fix the site”. And just in case anyone thinks that’s harder than it sounds, I’ve spent the last 8 years of my career as a front end web developer, software engineer, and user experience designer, and it would take a small but skilled team a NEGLIGIBLE amount of time to make a HUGE impact on the things we really want. Ok, so sorry, rant done! Thank you JN for keeping us all in the loop as always.
Oh, that's never gonna happen? Ok, I'll go watch YT vids on how to quilt. Might as well learn a hobby while watching this pathetic demise. Why do the premium boards not rant and rage about stuff like this? I go there and there's nothing. Vapid questions-Which pet looks the best, please vote for my pet, blah blah blah nonsense. Nothing addressed calling TNT out? Such a clique over there.
Have they actually been making their money back on these releases? They're making these games pretty fast, which to me translates to burning a lot of money. These games generally aren't leaving beta before they die, so the only way THAT makes sense is if they're hits, like, the moment they release. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that's not the case. They're acting like they have a cash cow they can milk with minimal effort.
September 21, 2022 10:14 PM NST
Before you read my rant, bear in mind that Neopets games on site that have gambling aspects to them are not REAL money. THIS likely WOULD be real money.
Q10: "...Careful, though, as your quirky side can get the better of you when you see fellow designers possibly stealing your work."
Why would they do that? Why is that even an option?
"This is when you can take your revenge by messing up their outfits, destroying their buildings, and taking some of their money."
Why would WE do that!? Destroy their livelihoods and steal their money!? That's horrible!
1. Fix up and customize villages on your journey
3. Decorate and customize interior scenes and villagers
4. Destroy other players' villages with your laser gun and paint villagers"
Do you want to try the new game when it is released?
I answered "No."
September 21, 2022 10:14 PM NST
"However, your past darkness bubbles up from time to time, especially when you see others succeeding more than you."
Is this supposed to justify the destroying and stealing gameplay aspect, or make you feel guilty about doing it?
Do you want to try the new game when it is released?
I answered "No."
*glances at Q12*
Okay, I see. They've planned the game mechanics already, but they don't have a narrative in place.
"You play a pirate who wants to see the world and make it a better place!"
September 21, 2022 10:15 PM NST
Q13. There are the following 5 characters in a casual mobile game, which one do you look forward to playing more?
"None of the above"
Q14. How do you like gameplay that involves using a Slot mechanic?
"I don't like it at all"
Q15. How do you like gameplay involving attacks on other player's Neopets with a laser paint gun?
"I don't like it at all"
Q16. How do you like gameplay that involves destroying villages around Neopia and rebuilding them?
"I don't like it at all"
Q17. How do you like gameplay that involves building, managing and customizing your own ship while destroying others?
"I don't like it at all"
Q18. Please select the following game name ideas you like.
I chose "None of the above."
September 21, 2022 10:15 PM NST
Q19. Do you have any suggestions or expectations for the above casual mobile game?
There are those out there that have gambling addiction, and it has completely destroyed them.
Neopets Luck-and-change games have always been just virtual points and never real money.
Mystery Capsules in the NC Mall, even if there's only a small chance that it would produce an item that you wanted, would still give you something!
This is not acceptable, especially with a fandom that has been branded as a "kids site."
Toxic, "dopamine-saturating," slot-based, smart-phone games like Slotomania prey on those with gambling addiction to play, and creates gambling addiction to newcomers in the process! Please don't follow their lead.
Gambling games use predatory-tactics by adding cutesy imagery and flashy colours and sounds to entice innocent susceptible minds to play it and keep them wired in, continually giving the company money in the process.
If you do not stop production on this slots game soon, whoever conceived this game will have severely hurt NetDragon's profit margins.
People are getting waaaayyyy too upset about this.
It's a game.
If this new mobile game is offensive, then don't look at the Ski Lodge Murder Mystery.
There are more important things to take care of right now instead of making a new mobile game, but this game isn't offensive.
not to rant but I answered 'no' and 'none of the above' on literally all of these. NOT because I am totally against a mobile game but because that's just the truth, none of this applies to me. does it apply to any neopets player?? why is it so hard for them to just try to make an actual NEOPETS game instead of cheap reskins? I could understand if the games were successful but are they?? it's so strange. Also that hannah model is so ugly... the PS2 game from 2005 looked a hundred times better!! from what I have seen and the examples given this looks to be the most disappointing and weirdest game yet. I hope I'm wrong.
September 21, 2022 10:55 PM NST
as bad as this whole survey is, I think the most laughably bad thing is PUBG and whatever this Garena Free Fire thing is being listed as "shoot 'em ups"... when shmup is its own genre separate from shooters entirely
whoever made this is so clearly out of touch lmfao
to add to my previous comment, just the second question alone is more proof- only boomers who don't know a thing about games still call anything "computer games"
September 21, 2022 11:36 PM NST
would really love for them to finish the mobile games they already have
or better yet
bring back the games the players are actually asking for
September 21, 2022 11:38 PM NST
Like, just IMAGINE Key Quest or Habitarium on mobile. Sure, they'd probably have to remake the games from the ground up, but they'd definitely be worthwhile investments.
Never have I ever heard of a Pirate who's life goal it is to make clothes for others to make their dreams come true.
It's like they had one concept in mind and just plastered a couple of themes on them that don't fit at all. This is not a survey to see what we want, it's a survey to see which theme would work best for the playerbase, but the game is going to be as is anyway.
So.. what is that question regarding if I have played the online game Neopets recently? Is this not a Neopets survey? Gee, I have no idea what Neopets is. Let's take this survey!
@1jediboy: Not to mention that this game would seemingly teach kids it is okay to steal things from others and destroy their stuff. If you would apply that logic to Neopets we're going to need a bigger security-boat.
(And I know types of games like this exist, where you can attack other players while they're not looking and loot and pillage a portion of their things. It does not at all sound like fun to be able to do that!)
September 22, 2022 12:59 AM NST
So basically you get to choose between a fashion designer, a witch and something else stupid but they're all the exact same thing. Make outfits, customize houses and stuff, and DESTROY other people's stuff. That's in all of them. They had me in the first half; with so many Animal Crossing fans on Neo, they could've finally had something here and made some kind of cute SIM that requires you to build and customize stuff, customize your character etc.. but why do ALL of them include destroying someone else's hard work?! No. Thank. You. I'd rather take a Match3 at this point so long as it rewards NPs on-site like Ghoul Catchers used to do. Or bring Habitarium to mobile! Or Key Quest!!
September 22, 2022 1:03 AM NST
Heck, I'd take a Pokémon GO/Pikmin Bloom style Neopets mobile game, something where you go out and explore, unlock different Neopets species as you level up, maybe you need to do some real-life exploring to find Paint Brushes for them and stuff.. But that's probably WAY above what TNT's game developers can do.
Oof those genres got me malding.
"Ah yes, my favourite fighting game: Genshin Impact."
@herdy - I actually saw the "edited feminine characters to appear masculine" as a really great feature and a window of opportunity for TNT to include trans characters in their games. Your comment is plain rude, outright transphobic, and completely uncalled for. Please apologize.
September 22, 2022 3:02 AM NST
The reason why Bilge Dice isn't being fixed is because it's considered a "gambling" game (even though it doesn't use RL money).
And yet we're possibly getting a game that's fundamentally similar and if there isn't a RL cash element included I'll eat my hat!
@knockingatyourdoor - I think you've missed the point Herdy was making. The idea that 'only boys can be pirates' surely excludes trans people too.
@pirate, that isn't true. Otherwise they'd have taken down the other gambling games too.
As 1jediboy pointed out above, the difference is that the on-site gambling games use NP rather than real world money. That's a huge difference.
@knocking: TNT do include trans characters in their games and have done for decades. This is enforcing gender stereotypes— the literal opposite of inclusion.
September 22, 2022 3:56 AM NST
What's funny is the PC got themselves all riled up that this survey would be about NC UC's.
This game looks like all the things I avoid in a mobile game.
@herdy - And how is depicting a female neopet wearing male clothes a "gender stereotype"? I think you might need to update your concepts on the matter. Not to mention you didn't apologize at all and instead tried to lecture me. It doesn't surprise me coming from you.
@recklesse - That is HIS idea, not everyone else's. A very transphobic idea, and he didn't even try to hide his bigotry at all. As I said, it doesn't surprise me, but it's very disappointing that it is coming from a JN staffer, to say the least.
September 22, 2022 5:14 AM NST
Oh, you call yourself a mobile gamer?
Have you been playing mobile games for OVER 30 DAYS?
These questions are silly.
This survey is a market research embarrassment and they should fire their marketing/strategy team for even bringing this forward. There are about a thousand other game ideas the community asks for before a lazy slot game. It’s actually pretty appalling how out of touch the JS team is with their consumers.
@knocking: The Pirate Avenger is a female character that's existed on Neopets for the greater part of two decades. They took that artwork and removed the more feminine presenting parts of it to produce a more masculine presenting character to represent the concept of a pirate. The idea that they couldn't use a female character as a pirate is a gender stereotype, as in the idea that pirates are for men only. I hope that explains things enough for you.
My favorite part where the titles, Neopints is my favorite currency
@herdy - Yet again another unwanted, condescending, out of the blue lecturing by the all-knowing herdygerdy. First there was transphobia, and now there is mansplaining. Surely you can't get any more annoying, offensive, and disrespectful than this, can you? Do yourself a favor and stop typing, please.
@knocking: I replied to a specific question you posted to me — it was neither unwanted nor out of the blue. If you have specific issues with me you are more than welcome to neomail me about them but it seems like you’re more wanting to attack me as an individual than engage with what I said, so please stop with the insults. JN comments are not the place for them.
@herdy - Sure, buddy, that "I hope that explains things enough for you" at the end wasn't patronizing and insulting at all! Again, it doesn't surprise me at all coming from you. I'm sorry for "having specific issues" with a transphobic and misogynistic individual. Hey look, at least one of us apologized! I didn't plan on calling you out on your bigotry and disrespectful behavior on the JN comments, you just happened to have an attitude over here as well. Shocker.
One last thing, stop playing the victim card. It doesn't fit you at all.
September 22, 2022 7:25 AM NST
I ended up deciding to go on hiatus, didn't delete my accounts in case I decide to return when things get better.
@herdy, you do an incredible job and I'm thankful for the work you do.
Seeing that they put Fate/Grand order as a "Card Game" seem like troubling for TNT.
Plus they seem to be more focus on adult stuff like gambling which make it more troublesome
This look like a Gopet situation (remember those) If you check their crappy facebook page you see its becoming a slot game then whoever run the page decided to sell all of the old gopets merch stock left.
I'm curious, which old characters in game are trans? I remember stories about neopets wanting to change species, but no gender. And the happiness faerie is a joke about a bad guy pretending to be something innocent to get some benefit, so it wouldn't count.
(knoking is super disrespectful, ignore them)
Still find it incredible that they could easily pick the old games remake them and make a WarioWare clone this would attract the old players with nostalgia and new players because many people enjoy minigame collections...
And like they have so many games like Castle of Eliv Thade that they can easily just renovate them and make them into mobile games is just infuriating at this point how they don't try to salvage anything from Neopets
If you put everything into context. this seem to be marketed to adults. So the paintball thing is rather NSFW a sexual innuendo to something that Kids would check out because Neopet is a family/kid brand!
In using my knowledge in game development this is rather troublesome and Jumpstart can get into legal grey territory with this one.
I know Neopets have Stimulated gambling and the Staff killing content but those are behind a Serious Age gate system and TNT changes direction when nickelodeon takes over.
@anusurenropian: Antola Maeir from the SK YYB team is trans. He was introduced in 2008.
I see a new Pirate Avenger that is no more masculine than the one in the Book of Ages. (The new outfit looks more functional for battle.) However, Herdy's comment was in no way transphobic.
@herdy thanks, I forgot about him.
I recently played Quizara's Curse - the old Didj game that Neopets put out in the early 2000s - and it was way more fun, charming, and evocative than whatever this looks to be.
I've never wanted to shoot Neopets with guns or destroy their villages. Not sure why I'd want to do it and also play slots, somehow? This entire concept is lazy.
This is a joke, yes let’s make more apps that’ll never get released. This is the twilight zone I feel. Is it April fools day every day now?
September 22, 2022 11:52 AM NST
There's not an option in the survey of time spent playing the webgame Neopets as: I play this game every single day for 4-6 hours.
September 22, 2022 11:53 AM NST
And even those are rookie numbers.
Yeesh. They are REALLY chasing the mobile game trends. This looks like the three zillion Lillie's garden copy cats- especially the ones that copy the style for ads, but end up being completely different than the game proper.
I doubt they actually care about our opinion.
September 22, 2022 1:24 PM NST
coira: "What's funny is the PC got themselves all riled up that this survey would be about NC UC's."
A survey/poll was mentioned to be coming for NC UCs specifically, so there was a reason for the anticipation. :/
(JN Editorial ID: 21055)
My bar for Neopets is on the floor in hell and they still managed to limbo under it with this game concept. So congratulations I guess?
Let's cool it with some of the comments here--I've removed a few that started to devolve into a shouting match. Let's not go there again.
Wow, it just gets worse and worse.
@dave: But... I asked something that I was pondering over.. It wasn't meant to be fuel to a fire.. My apologies if it seemed that way, thank you for upholding the peace
I'm so baffled about the laser paint gun. Where does the laser part come in??
I don't know. Maybe it has laser focus. That's a thing, right?
for the love of Dr. Sloth... FIX! THE! SLOTS! ON! NEOPETS!
Heck, FIX NEOPETS! Even. More mobile garbage. I am so angry.
@maknaetani because was the only model they had around and they wouldn't have money to create another terrible mobile game if they "wasted" making original assets
Grand Theft Auto with Muppets
September 23, 2022 8:59 AM NST
am I missing something? these are all the same game right? just different characters?
@big_dee: Correct. They already have their hearts set on making a slots game--they just seem to be hoping to get feedback on how to theme it.
Perhaps this is stemming from the fact that the initial match-3 game was movie studio themed, which was pretty off brand for Neopets.
ANOTHER mobile game? geez. ++ i thought they permanently removed slots from the site because they didn't want slot machines for kids...?
Jumpstart won't fix the stuff on the main site, there's no money to be milked from that
September 25, 2022 7:11 AM NST
neopets could've absolutely dominated mobile gaming if jumpstart had listened to even an ounce of player feedback at any point along the way. there's still time to make something like a successful mobile habitarium, petpet park, or key quest adaptation if they don't waste all their time, effort, and funds on crypto trash and uninspired "qUiRkY" sh
t like this, but i'm not optimistic.
September 26, 2022 1:28 AM NST
Not sure how to feel about this. In general slot games just really don’t appeal to me, although since this is a game I assume you’ll get a certain number of pulls for free. Honestly from the picture it just looks like a spin for damage attack mechanic which isn’t terrible, it’s just taking the usual RNG decision about how much an attack damages the target and presenting it as a slot machine. Rebuilding towns sounds like most of the mobile games I play. Raiding other people, I guess really depends on how bad the damage is and how much of a pain it is to clean up. If it turns into another game where I spend days letting the game grind for resources to upgrade stuff only to see other players make off with them (I’m looking at you Hustle Castle) I’m probably not going to enjoy it.
September 26, 2022 1:42 AM NST
“ Not to mention that this game would seemingly teach kids it is okay to steal things from others and destroy their stuff.”
You do realize that’s like 90% of mobile games that have multiplayer, right? Mostly it has a tendency to turn pay to win as the strongest/richest players dominate everyone else but I have seen games that do it well. Anyway aren’t you overreacting? Those are pretty standard gaming tropes, people always use to joke the plot of Final Fantasy games was you wander into people’s houses and steal everything that wasn’t nailed down before going out and murdering everything that crosses your path.
September 26, 2022 2:06 AM NST
“I'm so baffled about the laser paint gun. Where does the laser part come in??“
It doesn’t seem to, someone seems to have been undecided about whether to make this more like laser tag or paint ball and decided to bill it as both. It seems to just be paint ball though.
For those wondering why they got rid of slot machines on the site: it was Australia, they threatened to punish Neopets legally because under Australian law games aimed at children can’t include slots. Since this is a separate game from the main site they can presumably stick a regional age rating on it.
September 26, 2022 2:15 AM NST
And yeah, all the concepts are basically the exact same game, just with different skins and slightly different writing. That tells me they have the gameplay finalized and are at the point where they would be replacing their placeholder assets with the final assets. Personally I chose witch because the overall tone suits a wicked witch who is trying to be good, but can’t always help but backslide into her wicked ways.
For those wondering why they got rid of slot machines on the site.
They didn’t get rid of them, just blocked under 13s from playing.
My favorite question was "how long have you played mobile games" as if it's a totally new concept. I'm susre what they meant was "In the past month, how many days have you played mobile games" but I took them for their word and said 30+ days. lol
September 28, 2022 8:00 PM NST
@cay -- what's the other pet site please? :o
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